Talk:Noble - Revision history

Ray Djo at 03:04, 28 August 2006

2006-08-28T03:04:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:04, 28 August 2006
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	I came to the conclusion that these "two views" are not necessarily irreconcilable. The tale seems clear to me, that of a man who was distracted by websites and executive office stuff instead of running his fleet-- forgivable, and I think RC could have handled it better, but certainly Noble could have also handled it better. I'm not sure what "overt political maneuvers" refers to, so maybe that could be explained further, but the rest seems to make sense. -[[User:Licah Fox\|Licah Fox]] 15:35, 21 August 2006 (EDT)		I came to the conclusion that these "two views" are not necessarily irreconcilable. The tale seems clear to me, that of a man who was distracted by websites and executive office stuff instead of running his fleet-- forgivable, and I think RC could have handled it better, but certainly Noble could have also handled it better. I'm not sure what "overt political maneuvers" refers to, so maybe that could be explained further, but the rest seems to make sense. -[[User:Licah Fox\|Licah Fox]] 15:35, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

	~~== uncomfortable ==~~

	Mac offered his opinion on the matter to Rekio, and that is fine. However, I feel that Mac's comments should not be directly quoted. We can sum up his sentiment into a sentence or two about his dismissal, but having all of this other stuff is inflammatory. I've had my mind to make similar comments regarding others, but have avoided the urge to keep this database free of overly stated negative opinions that could cause a flame war if one of these people come back to see what's been written about them.

	~~My suggestion here is to come up with a cleaned-up simplified version of thangs, settle the matter and remove this entire discussion page content once this is done.~~

	We can objectively reconcile the several versions by simply listing a rough timeline of events with a simple introductory paragraph. The events themselves cannot be argued against, so not likely to become inflammatory.

	~~Savy?~~

	~~actually, not too bad on the current version...~~

	~~== This looks fine to me ==~~

	Mac intentionally stated that we could quote him directly on everything he said in his email, so I see no problem there. The discussion page is meant to be just that - opinions and discussion. That's why I quoted Mac's email on the discussion, but put a scaled-down summary of events on the article entry itself. This is exactly what the difference between article and discussion is for, in my opinion. I can understand wishing to spare a member's feelings if they are still around, but I think the passage of a decade sort of releases us from the obligation to whitewash bad stuff like that. If you have information like that about other members, Super, I wouldn't feel too bad about posting it.

	~~== Not with my dollar. :) ==~~

	I don't agree with that. The discussion page is as open and visible as the article. I'm not so concerned about a particular individual's feelings as I am about setting this wiki up as a positive environment that is in line with H.I.E.R. There are some matters that are appropriate for public consumption and some that are meant to be left in the offices of the CS and HC. We should try to keep an objective and positive environment here as we would anywhere in the RS. This can be down without whitewashing. After all, being objective is neither whitewashing nor inflammatory. Licah's rewrite of the article does this pretty well. So, I think we should at least remove Mac's comments here. We can still leave the resignation letter link, as that is in-and-of-itself a point of fact, even if it does record negative actions.


	~~== So yeah ==~~

	~~The world's not full of sunshine and lollipops and neither is the RS. Censorship for the sake of making things seem happier is...well wait what's the word for that, oh yes FAIL.~~


	---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling him a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]

	~~:So you know he wasn't planning on doing this?~~

	~~Noble was a bit of a super fan, if you don't mind the pun. Yeah, I'm sure. --[[Super]]~~

	~~OH NOES WORDS ON THE INTERNETS! I AM DEEPLY HURTEDED! HALP ME!~~

	This isn't about feelings or censorship. This is about keeping the RS resources focused and being objective. Heh, your feelings seem a bit hurt because your negativety isn't being accepted. lol --[[Super]]

Fcsuper: /* So yeah */

2006-08-27T15:20:51Z

So yeah

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:20, 27 August 2006
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	---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling him a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]		---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling him a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]

	:So you know he wasn't planning on doing this?		:So you know he wasn't planning on doing this?

			Noble was a bit of a super fan, if you don't mind the pun. Yeah, I'm sure. --[[Super]]

	OH NOES WORDS ON THE INTERNETS! I AM DEEPLY HURTEDED! HALP ME!		OH NOES WORDS ON THE INTERNETS! I AM DEEPLY HURTEDED! HALP ME!

			This isn't about feelings or censorship. This is about keeping the RS resources focused and being objective. Heh, your feelings seem a bit hurt because your negativety isn't being accepted. lol --[[Super]]

Ray Djo at 08:12, 27 August 2006

2006-08-27T08:12:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:12, 27 August 2006
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	---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling him a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]		---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling him a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]
	:So you know he wasn't planning on doing this?		:So you know he wasn't planning on doing this?

			OH NOES WORDS ON THE INTERNETS! I AM DEEPLY HURTEDED! HALP ME!

Ray Djo: /* So yeah */

2006-08-22T05:47:41Z

So yeah

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:47, 22 August 2006
Line 62:		Line 62:

	---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling him a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]		---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling him a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]
			:So you know he wasn't planning on doing this?

Fcsuper: /* So yeah */

2006-08-22T05:10:52Z

So yeah

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:10, 22 August 2006
Line 61:		Line 61:


	---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling in a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]		---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling him a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]

Fcsuper: /* So yeah */

2006-08-22T05:10:27Z

So yeah

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:10, 22 August 2006
Line 61:		Line 61:


	---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling in a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up. someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption ~~way~~ from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write ~~and~~ article first. --[[super]]		---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling in a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up...someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption away from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write an article first. --[[super]]

Fcsuper: /* So yeah */

2006-08-22T05:09:48Z

So yeah

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:09, 22 August 2006
Line 61:		Line 61:


	---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and is a sly way of calling in a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up. someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption way from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write and article first. --[[super]]		---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and it is a sly way of calling in a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up. someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption way from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write and article first. --[[super]]

Fcsuper: /* So yeah */

2006-08-22T05:09:21Z

So yeah

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:09, 22 August 2006
Line 59:		Line 59:

	The world's not full of sunshine and lollipops and neither is the RS. Censorship for the sake of making things seem happier is...well wait what's the word for that, oh yes FAIL.		The world's not full of sunshine and lollipops and neither is the RS. Censorship for the sake of making things seem happier is...well wait what's the word for that, oh yes FAIL.


			---It's not censorship. There's no press here to keep free. It's just us. Do we wanna turn this wiki into a place where people feel free to flame each other? Believe me, many of Mac's comments are substantiated, but many are nonsensical, such as notion that Noble wanted to hand the RS over to the EH. That's got no basis in fact and is a sly way of calling in a traitor, which isn't substantiated by anything. This is what we want to left up. someone's bad feelings about someone else? It doesn't have a place here and opens this wiki up for corruption way from documenting the RS to just being a flame war location for whoever happens to get to write and article first. --[[super]]

Ray Djo at 04:07, 22 August 2006

2006-08-22T04:07:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:07, 22 August 2006
Line 54:		Line 54:

	I don't agree with that. The discussion page is as open and visible as the article. I'm not so concerned about a particular individual's feelings as I am about setting this wiki up as a positive environment that is in line with H.I.E.R. There are some matters that are appropriate for public consumption and some that are meant to be left in the offices of the CS and HC. We should try to keep an objective and positive environment here as we would anywhere in the RS. This can be down without whitewashing. After all, being objective is neither whitewashing nor inflammatory. Licah's rewrite of the article does this pretty well. So, I think we should at least remove Mac's comments here. We can still leave the resignation letter link, as that is in-and-of-itself a point of fact, even if it does record negative actions.		I don't agree with that. The discussion page is as open and visible as the article. I'm not so concerned about a particular individual's feelings as I am about setting this wiki up as a positive environment that is in line with H.I.E.R. There are some matters that are appropriate for public consumption and some that are meant to be left in the offices of the CS and HC. We should try to keep an objective and positive environment here as we would anywhere in the RS. This can be down without whitewashing. After all, being objective is neither whitewashing nor inflammatory. Licah's rewrite of the article does this pretty well. So, I think we should at least remove Mac's comments here. We can still leave the resignation letter link, as that is in-and-of-itself a point of fact, even if it does record negative actions.


			== So yeah ==

			The world's not full of sunshine and lollipops and neither is the RS. Censorship for the sake of making things seem happier is...well wait what's the word for that, oh yes FAIL.

Fcsuper: Not with my dollar. :)

2006-08-22T03:34:50Z

Not with my dollar. :)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:34, 22 August 2006
Line 50:		Line 50:

	Mac intentionally stated that we could quote him directly on everything he said in his email, so I see no problem there. The discussion page is meant to be just that - opinions and discussion. That's why I quoted Mac's email on the discussion, but put a scaled-down summary of events on the article entry itself. This is exactly what the difference between article and discussion is for, in my opinion. I can understand wishing to spare a member's feelings if they are still around, but I think the passage of a decade sort of releases us from the obligation to whitewash bad stuff like that. If you have information like that about other members, Super, I wouldn't feel too bad about posting it.		Mac intentionally stated that we could quote him directly on everything he said in his email, so I see no problem there. The discussion page is meant to be just that - opinions and discussion. That's why I quoted Mac's email on the discussion, but put a scaled-down summary of events on the article entry itself. This is exactly what the difference between article and discussion is for, in my opinion. I can understand wishing to spare a member's feelings if they are still around, but I think the passage of a decade sort of releases us from the obligation to whitewash bad stuff like that. If you have information like that about other members, Super, I wouldn't feel too bad about posting it.

			== Not with my dollar. :) ==

			I don't agree with that. The discussion page is as open and visible as the article. I'm not so concerned about a particular individual's feelings as I am about setting this wiki up as a positive environment that is in line with H.I.E.R. There are some matters that are appropriate for public consumption and some that are meant to be left in the offices of the CS and HC. We should try to keep an objective and positive environment here as we would anywhere in the RS. This can be down without whitewashing. After all, being objective is neither whitewashing nor inflammatory. Licah's rewrite of the article does this pretty well. So, I think we should at least remove Mac's comments here. We can still leave the resignation letter link, as that is in-and-of-itself a point of fact, even if it does record negative actions.