Vaughan/Cartography Discussion

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This is a blank space!

04/12/2006 17:37 Vaughan

Greetings gentlemen. ":)

It is my intention to get this cartography project properly rolling along, mostly spurned on by two things: my want/need for location names to name historical battles after for the timeline, and Randy's expression of interest in working on a locations project in concert with the Logistics Office.

If you're reading this email, then you're relevant to the project in some way --- Randy has agreed to help work on data for the locations, Rekio and Raven are Deputy and Tactical Logistics Officers, respectively, Abi has agreed to work on turning what we produce into sleek-looking sector maps, Dave is FC, and Josh as PBF CO has created storyline in various locations, and may have input on where his fleet was at certain times.

I'd firstly like to start off with the established canon representation of our local area and beyond (Abi: not that it's only the Elrood and Tantra Sectors down to the Kathol Sector that we need to worry about . . . although maybe include the Subterrel Sector, too . . . so for any map that you would make, take those borders there as accurate for those established locations).

Anything we want to create must fit within those established borders.

Here is an early sketch of my impression of where locations could be in relation to each other, based on the Planets Database and ITOD missions and campaigns (note that this is a crappy sketch, and is very rough --- most definitely not to scale!).

And before I get into explanations of why I tentatively placed locations where I did, please refer to this wiki entry on tour locations.

Okay, now . . . regarding placements . . . these are some fairly solid placements that I don't foresee changing:

Greeop Sector --- must be rimward (down) of the Minos Cluster, and must be sort of to the right of the Cadrel Expanse, possibly rimward (down) slightly. Now, since the Greeop Sector is not covered in any official sources (since we're apocryphal), I've tried to allow for that, by not placing us exactly on the main trade route (Triton). Therefore we must be either to the left, or to the right of it. Personally I think we must be to the left of it, but back when I made this sketch I thought otherwise. Why do I think it must be to the left? Because the Minos Conflict was a battle for four star systems in the Minos Cluster (Dar'telis, Lantare, Yridia, Lyccos) which are completely made-up systems . . . now, from what we know of established Minos Cluster locations, a fair number of them are on the Rimma/Triton Trade Routes that goes through the middle of the cluster. So . . . by placing Greeop below the Minos Cluster, to the left of the trade route, we can have the Minos Conflict being a battle on the edge of the Minos Cluster, but still within its borders.

Cadrel Expanse --- has to be accessible from the Greeop Sector and the Binaural Sector (for the intents and purposes of the Minos Conflict and Outer Rim Wars I and II, we're using the Binaural Sector as the main Imperial forward location in the region ---> note that this does not discredit the existence of an Aurora Sector, just that the Binaural Sector is the one the Imperials launch from in these historical multiplayer competitions). The only way I could get this to work was to place the Binaural Sector coreward (up) of this cluster, and the Greeop Sector to the right and maybe slightly rimward (down).

Binaural Sector --- if you've read the previous two entries, this requires no explanation. Has to have access to the Minos Cluster and the Cadrel Expanse.

The following are regions that are fairly solid, but could move slightly if it is really needed.

Halas Sector --- this is a 'normally quiet region of space' that was detected as having become less quiet by PBF forces as they headed back from the Cadrel Expanse to the Greeop Sector. It is said to be 'beyond long-range scans' (other than detecting increased transmissions), but also that any Imperial presence there is 'too close to RS space'. So this sector can be placed anywhere rimward (down) of the Minos Cluster, as long as it's out beyond and between the Cadrel Expanse and the Greeop Sector. This sector connects to the Enomea Rim, which I have placed rimward (down) of it.

Enomea Rim --- The presence of the descriptive word 'rim' in its title seems to suggest that this region is in fact on the border of civilised space (or perhaps right on the edge of travellable space) . . . so technically it is beyond the Outer Rim, and well into Wild Space (mind you, it can be argued that the Minos Cluster is in Wild Space, so this location must be really far out and uncivilised . . .). Has to connect to the Halas Sector, which I've placed coreward (up) of it. Imperial and White Guard (para-Imperial pirate organisation) fought over the Halas Sector and the Enomea Rim, with White Guard forces based in the Enomea Rim, and Imperial forces trying to get a foothold in the Halas Sector to assail the White Guard in their own territory (of course we had to screw this all up by attacking Imperial forces, even though they were kind of doing us a favour, as the White Guard were a very serious threat to our operations).

??? Sector --- as you can see on the map, I have indicated two ??? sectors . . . both of these placements are incorrect, and they are both the one location (reason? In one campaign an RS force helps evacuate a world who's star is about to go nova . . . then a few campaigns later, another RS force is travelling through a foreign sector when they are waylaid by an exploding star . . . the nova rate of the galaxy is approximately three per century, so it seems higly likely that they were both in the same sector). As far as I see it, the ??? Sector (apart from needing a name) is somewhere to the left of the Cadrel Expanse.

Desdemona Sector --- The main prerequisites for this location is that it has to be far from RS space. In the campaign it's referred to as the 'Unknown Regions', but since canon Unknown Regions is actually one quarter of the galaxy on a completely different part of the galaxy (don't ask), we'll take that to mean 'the edge frontier of Wild Space' . . . So I've tentatively placed it there, since if it were on the other side of the Kathol Sector it would be near the Enomea Rim, which is not terribly mysterious since there are a bunch of marauding pirates we already know of there. :P

Osiris Sector --- not actually drawn onto the map at this stage, but it would be a very small sector, somewhere near the Cadrel Expanse (maybe down and to the left a bit?). Don't really have much information on this, but as it is a sector RS forces liberated from recent Imperial occupation in the wake of the Outer Rim War I (the battle over the Cadrel Expanse) . . .

Now, regions who's locations are fast and fluid, and can change at our slightest whim . . .

Ynia Cluster --- this small star cluster joins to the Minos Cluster somewhere. I really don't know where, however it has to be a position that we might have trouble reinforcing . . . Imperial forces were (at one stage) reinforcing the cluster through the Minos Cluster . . . I really don't know where to put this, but it has to be somewhere that the Imperial forces can realistically garrison without us breaking in, because we quite simply haven't (we've essentially forgotten about the cluster and abandoned the local resistance groups to opposing the Imperial presence alone . . . unless they've already won or the Imperial forces withdrew because we cut their supply lines into the cluster . . . ). I don't know. Somewhere connecting to the Minos Cluster.

Meridian Cluster --- territory tentatively held by New Republic forces (not us), which I've placed coreward (up) of the Minos Cluster, to express that it is close to civilisation and further from our territory as such . . . I don't really have any solid placement for it, other than it's closer to New Republic territory (not that Elrood Sector is New Republic territory) . . . another requirement for it, is that it should be near the Dotani Sector, as Imperial forces from the Dotani Sector raided the cluster.

Dotani Sector --- previously Imperial-held territory that borders the Binaural Sector, and must be within striking distance of the Meridian Cluster. As long as those two conditions are satisfied, I don't really care where on the map it sits.

Okay, so that's all that I've tentatively placed at the moment, much of which can change, some of which cannot . . .

For now, I'd like to hear from Randy to see what additions or alterations he would suggest, based on the data he himself has collected/created based on the ABG's exploits . . .

Once we've settled an overview of where sectors should be placed, then we'll move towards the more nitty-gritty details within the sectors.


Col. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

05/12/2006 07:16 Starkiller

My first suggestion is a quick reminder, really: space is three-dimensional. The central bulk of the disc is the main colonized area in the galaxy, but the Milky Way's disc is 1,000 lightyears thick away from the Core bulge, and the Star Wars galaxy is wider by 20,000 l-y (120,000 as opposed to 100,000), so we can assume that it would be slightly thicker as well. This opens up an opportunity to place some regions above/below each other, since the typical sector seems to tend between 500 and 1,500 light-years across, so one could assume they might be roughly the same along the z-axis. This opens the possibiliy of a central sector with fringe sectors above and below it (encompassing the edges of the disc and any star clusters which may be located above/below it).

According to the ABG, the Greeop Sector has at least two direct neighbors: Minos Cluster and a small NR backwater sector called 'Kola'. We generally treat the Greeop Sector as being located on the Rimma, between Elrood and Minos, with the main bulk slightly galactic-west (left) of the Rimma. That's flexible, though: just replace the Rimma running through Greeop with a regional spur/bypass of the Rimma and that probably is set.

I've always assumed the Cadrel Expanse to be where Vaughen has tentatively placed it, so that's cool. According to the resources I've seen (canon SW), Elrood either is or becomes a New Republic member around our time period.

Except the possibility of star clusters like the Meridian and Ynia Cluster being above/below the galactic plane, I can't think of anything else right now. Back to Vaughen, I guess.

- Randy Starkiller

05/12/2006 15:33 Vaughan

Oops. Forgot to Reply to All. Also, one other note . . . would you be able to specify what extra locations you have and would like to include, like the Kola Sector? Tanks.

Regarding three-dimensional space: This is true, however there is no easy or good way to represent that on a two-dimensional map . . . so with a few exceptions, I think the default sector or region should be all the way thick, or at least not have other sectors or regions on top of them. Keeping in mind we have to show it on a map. Locations within each sector can be implied as being up and down within it, but it shouldn't make too much difference as we'll be representing it on a two-dimensional map (some exceptions could be, for example, the Ynia Cluster, which I can't find anywhere decent to place . . .).

Greeop Sector placement: I don't have a problem with Kola, but . . . coreward of Minos Cluster? I have never seen that representation on any maps that I've come across (and yes, I know many of them are contradictory, but the idea seems to be that Greeop is rimward of Minos). As for the trade route . . . I agree with putting the bulk of the Sector to the left of the trade route, but with a fringe overlapping it for us to run cargo checks, etc.

Cadrel Expanse: Excellent.

Elrood Sector: Would you be able to cite which sources infer the sector becoming affiliated with the New Republic? I know that the sector eventually joins the New Republic, but I didn't know when . . . and by 'our time period', which are you referring to? The RS main time period (circa 9 ABY) or the ABG time period (circa 13 ABY)?

Meridian and Ynia Clusters above/below the plane: I could live with this. I really can't find anywhere decent for them, so they can be up and/or down. However on the map they would look to all be on the same plane --- but them's the breaks of using a flat surface to draw something with depth, like a galaxy. :P

So, as far as I can see . . . all we need to do is agree on a location for the Greeop Sector, and then we can start map-making . . .


Col. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

06/12/2006 08:59 Starkiller

Elrood is is either New Republic or independent by 12 ABY, probably much sooner given the general wisdom holds the New Republic having strongholds on that side of the galaxy, with the Empire entrenched opposite, with pockets on either side. I'll see if I can find a source (possibly pester Leland Chee, Keeper of the Star Wars Holocron continuity database, on the forums) on when Elrood joined the New Republic.

I agree with the two-dimensional projection issue, I was just merely pointing out that the option was availible to us. :)

So, assuming we can agree on a placement of Greeop in relation to Minos, it's either on the Rimma or the Triton Trade Route? I can live with that. I have a little bit of the sector's internal cartography in my head, so we'll be able to compare notes on that later. I did, for the ABG, create a regional trade roue called the Nitram Lutha Hyperboulevard which runs galactic-east to galactic-west. It heads out into Imperial-held systems to the west, and south-east further out into Wild Space. The Greeop Way route connects to it in the Baphomet system (which then runs to the Greeop system, creating the strategic backdoor), while the Rimma/Triton connects north of the Greeop system in a system I called the Corona system.

Anyways, rambling aside: I can't wait to get down into the nitty gritty of working out this information. Let's hope all goes well. :)

Wishing you all the best, Randy Starkiller

06/12/2006 11:28 Vaughan

zomg replies!

Elrood is is either New Republic or independent by 12 ABY, probably much sooner given the general wisdom holds the New Republic having strongholds on that side of the galaxy, with the Empire entrenched opposite, with pockets on either side. I'll see if I can find a source (possibly pester Leland Chee, Keeper of the Star Wars Holocron continuity database, on the forums) on when Elrood joined the New Republic.

If you can raise the Keeper of the Holocron on the issue, that would be most excellent. =)

I agree with the two-dimensional projection issue, I was just merely pointing out that the option was availible to us. :)

Oh, good, good. Now I understand what you mean. :)

So, assuming we can agree on a placement of Greeop in relation to Minos, it's either on the Rimma or the Triton Trade Route?

The reason I've placed Greeop rimward of Minos is because in most maps and descriptions I've seen, this is the configuration of major sectors:




That's a rough representation, but the relationship to each other is vaguely that (the Minos Conflict actually seems to show Imperial territory up-right from Greeop, but that doesn't work with the inclusion of the Cadrel Expanse in Outer Rim Wars I and II).

I can live with that. I have a little bit of the sector's internal cartography in my head, so we'll be able to compare notes on that later.

Excellent. After we nail down these overarching details, I would like to get stuck into the nitty-gritty internal sector details. )

I did, for the ABG, create a regional trade roue called the Nitram Lutha Hyperboulevard which runs galactic-east to galactic-west. It heads out into Imperial-held systems to the west, and south-east further out into Wild Space. The Greeop Way route connects to it in the Baphomet system (which then runs to the Greeop system, creating the strategic backdoor), while the Rimma/Triton connects north of the Greeop system in a system I called the Corona system.

Sounds good. :)

Would you be able to provide a rough graphical sketch of what you see the placements as being? That way it might be clearer to work with to properly determine similarities and differences than a purely textual context.

Also, once we get into nitty-gritty inner-sector details, I was hoping for your assistance in placing locations featured in ITOD missions, coming up with names of planets/stars/systems/nebulae as we go. I have no skill when it comes to names. Of course, if this is too much to ask, I'm sure Raven would be able to assist in providing names for previously-unnamed regions.

Anyways, rambling aside: I can't wait to get down into the nitty gritty of working out this information. Let's hope all goes well. :)

Indeed. Hopefully we can get onto that soon.


Col. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

07/12/2006 07:41 Ocopaqui

I guess I'll throw in my few creds...

What I could do when making the map is have in inset to show the z axis representation of systems/clusters/nebulae/etc. It wouldn't be super hard for me to do, I'd just need to have those details pretty close to set before I start drafting the map. If something was important enough to have the need to be shown above the galactic plane, it wouldn't be anything crazy hard.

07/12/2006 08:51 Vaughan

  • nods*

That's good to know. :)

It's not something I'd be terribly interested to pursue at the moment, but it is good to know we have the option open to us if we find a good reason to do so.

Thank-you. =)

A question: once we agree on sector placements, would it be possible for you to come up with the map with sector borders only, and then later add details as we go along (such as system placements, trade routes if possible)?


Col. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

07/12/2006 08:58 Ocopaqui

Yeah, once you guys get done shifting sectors, shoot me an email detailing what you'd like and I'll draft it up.

08/12/2006 09:50 Starkiller

You asked me for a map of how I see the interior of the Greeop Sector, so I drew out and photographed (with my digital camera) what I envision Greeop Sector the the immediate region as looking like, in general. Only a couple of the planets are named, but I am pretty good with naming worlds, so I don't think I'll have a problem with that.

The first is the general region, scale of 1 unit = 20 light-years. The second is a zoom-in of the Greeop Nebula, scale of 1 unit = 1 light-year. I editted both in Photoshop to clean them up and color-in the trade routes and nebulae a bit. Hope you like them and that they give you inspiration.


Randy Starkiller

Greeop Sector

Greeop Nebula

10/12/2006 20:08 Vaughan

Hmm . . .

A few thoughts:

I like the nebula, however I'm wondering why we're buried in the middle of one? Is there basis for this in any established material. If so, let me know and I'll check it out. However, it seems a bit . . . I don't know, strange to have us sitting in the middle of a nebula. I don't have a problem with our territory borders on some sides being covered in nebula, but it just seems strange to me to have us sitting right in the middle of the gas and dust clouds. If you can explain the reasoning for this, I might be able to understand better (my head is currently as cloudly as a nebula, so elaboration may be necessary).

Also, I like the idea of the Greeop Sector overlapping the Triton Trade Route (as Elrood and Tantra Sectors do with the Rimma Trade Route), but as we seem to be a bit of a backwater, and our main worlds don't seem to get much moving through it, I would say that the Greeop and Baphomet systems might be a bit further back from the trade route, but close enough to be accessible to it. So that we're not exactly a port of call along the route, but we're close enough to interdict Imperial shipping that might be travelling through.

Could you explain where exactly the Kola and . . . Kiaren(?) Sectors are, exactly, and what they are? I'm guessing they're New Republic territory, however I was under the impression that we were the main New Republic presence in the region, this far out. Unless the sectors are secured by us (or NR forces) sometime before 13 ABY, but after 9 ABY?

And . . . I am wondering where we should place the Aurora Sector, if at all . . . Placing it adjacent to the Greeop Sector (with a major nebula barring the way) could work, if it were to the right (there's no room on the left, as far as I can tell) . . . however that denies us access to everywhere to the right of our current location. Which in of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you're set on it being there, I'm sure we can work it in.

Another thing with the Aurora Sector . . . would they be the same Imperial forces that we went up against in the Minos Conflict, and the two Outer Rim Wars (Cadrel Expanse, and Binaural Sector)? If not, then it explains that we can have a non-contiguous Imperial territory out here. If they are, then we need to figure out why their forward territory (Binaural Sector, Dotani Sector) are over the other side of the Minos Cluster from them.

Hang on, I'll whack up a quick demonstration on the map to show what I mean . . .

Okay, I've whacked together a crude map to show you what I mean . . . the only uncertain placements I have are the Meridian Cluster (which should probably be to the right of the trade route, but it'll do for now), and the Aurora Sector, which I'm not sure how to make work.

Note that:

  • The Greeop Sector has always been RS-aligned (since we've been here)
  • The Minos Cluster was bitterly fought over by RS and Imperial forces, with RS the victors . . . and then we mysteriously withdrew a while later, leaving it unoccupied
  • The Cadrel Expanse was fought over by RS, Imperial and pirate/militant forces, with RS forces retaining it afterward
  • The Binaural Sector was major forward Imperial territory, and was conquered by RS forces, who now presumable control the region
  • The Meridian Cluster seems to be a small New Republic foothold coreward of the Minos Cluster (and it really should be below Tantra Sector, instead of Elrood Sector, as Elrood has a history of being less friendly to the New Republic . . . at least until they capitulated)
  • Ynia Cluster is allied territory currently controlled by Imperial forces (could be freed by now, the storyline was abandoned) . . . Imperial forces were reinforcing themselves through the Minos Cluster, back when Binaural and Dotani Sectors were Imperially-held
  • The Halas Sector was an originally quiet sector, where Imperial forces moved forces into, to engage a major para-Imperial pirate/militant organisation based in the Enomea Rim . . . presumably abandoned, as RS forces conquered Imperial and pirate forces, and returned to RS space
  • The Enomea Rim was the territory of the above-mentioned pirate group, who were conquered by RS and Imperial forces . . . this region is presumably abandoned
  • [Untitled] Sector isn't really anywhere important, however RS forces have been there twice for various regions (once they were lured into an Imperial trap along smuggler trade routes, and another time was to evacuate a native planet who's star was about to supernova)
  • And . . . the Desdemona Sector is waaay out of the way, right on the edge of the galaxy, pretty much . . . it's too far out for us to control, even though we defeated an Imperial task force stationed there a while ago
  • The Aurora Sector . . . I'm not what to do with this . . . let me know your thoughts, and we'll see how to make it fit

Well, those are some thoughts of mine for now. Apologies for the slow response, I've been sick and busy . . . finally got around to it!

Let me know what you think, so we can proceed forward from here.


Col. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

10/12/2006 22:18 Starkiller

The nebula was based on the fact that the Greeop system is hard to access beyond the main route through it and the backdoor from the Baphomet system. I figured the easiest way to explain this was that it was part of a dense cluster of stars which had been recently birthed out of this nebula, as is the origin for all stars. The nebula itself is dispersing, but the cluster is still pretty dense, and makes Hyperspace travel; very tricky.

The reason I put the Greeop system on the Triton is for two reasons: A) it is the sector capital and seems to be a very civilized system for this far rimward of Elrood; and B) (which is related to A) Tarsonis seems to be a fairly major system, especially since it holds the sector capital. If you dislike the idea, it's fine, but I just feel that a system with the Greeop system's significance should have more strategic value than just a easily defended military outpost. On the Triton they can directly regulate trade along the route.

The Kola and Kiaren Sectors were my little baseline NR sectors during the ABG era. I decided to just m erge them both into the Kola Sector when we started discussing this, as that would make them easier to handle.

The maps I've looked at have always placed the Imperial territory as of 9 ABY between the Rimma/Triton and the Unknown Regions, meaning galactc-west of the route, not galactic-east. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I always assumed that Imperial territitories would be west of the Greeop Sector and Minos. They're kind of off-camera on the two maps I drew.

So as for the Aurora Sector, I'd find a way to wedge it in west of Greeop, not east.I know the old Minos Conflict placed the Aurora system close to the Minos Cluster, but it almost seems more distant from it than the Greeop system is, and that map is really vague and inaccurate anyway. I think we should sort through what we have and start retconning things so we don't confuse ourselves here.

And for the Aurora Sector, even if you moved it to the other side of the map, I could still see it as being non-contagious to the rest of the local Imperial territories. It's supposedly a stronghold, and I doubt they'd abandon it just because they got surrounded and cut off from the rest of the Empire's territories. Because that's what most of the Empire is at this point: pockets spread across the galaxy. It's how the Seperatists fought the Clone Wars. It's how the New Republic fought the early stages of the war post-Endor. So it's not unheard of, and I say we do it.

Anyways, I'm just waking up, so I may have some more thoughts on the matter later. For now, I think we're making some pretty good progress here. :)

Yours in good faith, Randy Starkiller

10/12/2006 22:42 Vaughan

Regarding the nebula and system placement in relation to the trade route . . . I'll have to think about that for a little while, weight it up in my brain before getting back to you on it.

Also, would you be able to explain the Kola Sector a bit more thoroghly: i.e. who's there, what they're doing, our relationship to them, their status in the war, etc.

Regarding canon Imperial locations . . . if you're familiar with Modi the Mapmaker's website and maps, then we should find them relevant to our plans. Conflict maps for the following time periods:

Now, these might not be exhaustive, however I have faith in the cartographer's skills.

From the looks of it, there isn't much in the way of serious, active and bloody Imperial activity in our region during the post-Endor Civil War era . . . however, that doesn't mention bases and Imperial territory. And as far as I'm concerned, the less canon sources say about an area we're involved with, the better! Allows us more room to move about and breathe.

Something else to keep in mind is that the ideas you might have are probably based around 13 ABY. That's good and well, but it's important to remember that we're catering for 9 ABY, too. That's not intended as an insult to your intelligence, or anything, just making sure I stress the point that we should keep in mind that friendly and enemy territory may change a bit throughout the time between those two points. Tying into this . . . when was the Kola Sector colonised/controlled by the New Republic? When did they set up shop? Would it be after 9 ABY, or before it?

And . . . I think your placement of the Aurora Sector is quite good --- we should stick it up near the Binaural Sector somewhere, so that Imperial forces went through their forward territory to wage war during the Minos Conflict and later conflicts.

Well, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum to you, heading to bed, so feel free to leave your comments for me when I wake up and get to them.

Also, does anyone else want to weigh in on any of the issues? Raven? Dave? Dugong?


Col. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

07/01/2007 00:24 Vaughan

Hey there. ":)

This discussion kind of petered out mid-December. That's undersatndable, as it was probably a busy time of year (I know it was for me, eak!).

At any rate, it would be good to get discussion moving again --- I had a feeling we were almost done sorting out the major issues, at which point we could start working on nitty-gritty details.

In the spirit of getting this discussion up and running again, I have copied all headway made so far onto the wiki. Check it out here --- images and all.

That said, I have some additions to make already, having gone over some of the material again . . .

  • Meridian and Ynia Clusters being above or below the galactic ecliptic --- I like this idea. I think we should look into utilising it if we can't find happier places to put it.
    • The basic information I have for a placement of the Meridian Cluster, is that it needs to be within fairly close proximity to the Dotani Sector. The Dotani Sector itself shares borders with the Binaural Sector. And the Binaural Sector is known to share borders with the Cadrel Expanse, which is accessable to the Greeop Sector. In between the Binaural Sector and the Greeop Sector, as a kind of counterpart to the Cadrel Expanse, is the Minos Cluster. The Meridian Cluster also needs to be . . . with some New Republic presence. Not necessarily anything RS-sized, but a few bases and supply platforms. So this made me think it could be between the Tantra Sector and the Minos Cluster (either direclty on the Rimma Trade Route, or maybe to the right of it), as the Tantra Sector is less hostile to the New Republic than the Elrood Sector is (at least until its capitulation to the New Republic at some point after 9 ABY).
  • We have a new placements for the Ynia Cluster! Including a sector map! (Map 1, Map 2)
    • I spoke with General Lamin Zykara, the creator of Operation: Zodiac, the main source that deals with the Ynia Cluster. He says that we can feel free to move the star cluster's placement around wherever we saw fit, however I believe I may have found a happy placement for it based on his initial intentions (but not exactly as he describes it).
      • "The Ynia Cluster is located several light-years directly to the right of the Minos Cluster, if you were travelling down the Rimma Trade Route towards the Kathol Sector. It has no relative + or - in the z-axis of the galaxy, and lies almost perfectly in the z-plane of our galaxy."
    • Okay, so that kind of nixes our above or below the ecliptic idea, after all . . . or not --- he did give us leave to move it around if need be. Okay, basically, what I get from that is . . . as it's to the right if one is travelling rimward, that means on our maps it would be to the left of the Triton Trade Route.
    • We also have a sector map (attached). As the RS presence would be most likely down to the bottom, instead of up the top, the solution for this is simple ---- just invert the map.
  • The Greeop Nebula works, I agree. However . . . I'm wondering if it's possible to have a sort of 'cavern' in it, so that we have some room to operate within the centre of the nebula, so that we're not completely boxed in claustrophobically (enough to at least give us a mostly-clear starfield, instead of just nebula all 'round).
    • Also, was it intended that the nebula would bar our way to the right hand side of the sector, leaving it unknown? It could be an explanation for our left-side-focused locations. And . . . where is the Kola Sector again?
  • Also, did you manage to get in touch with Leland Chee on the topic of 'when did the Elrood Sector become governed by the New Republic?'?
  • Also, check out the new Binaural Sector map, with the system names retconned by Raven, as requested by FC Fox before his departure.
    • Of course, once we work out all of these cartographic details, we can ask Abi to come up with something more map-like and good (thinking mostly simple graphics, rather than photo/graphic hybrids). Plus the map will have to be rotated slightly, to match up with the placements of the Cadrel Expanse and so on (don't worry, I have this sorted --> the Outer Rim War II documents explain what systems in the Binaural Sector line up with which systems in the Cadrel Expanse).
  • Another thing to keep in mind . . . if we are blocked (by natural nebula formations or whatever) from progressing through to the right of the trade route (assuming we're on top of the trade route), then we could perhaps move the Desdemona Sector from the edge of the galaxy on the right, to the edge of the galaxy on the left. I'm thinking somewhere between the Enomea Rim and the Subterrel Sector.
  • Did I mention I agreed with the Greeop system being on the Triton Trade Route?
  • And . . . the Aurora Sector. This should probably be wedged up in between the Binaural Sector and the Elrood Sector, is my thoughts . . . and . . . thinking 9 ABY-point of view, here . . . I would imagine we have Imperial forces holed up in the Aurora Sector ---> so we've taken their forward territories, namely the Minos Cluster (which we've abandoned, though), the Cadrel Expanse, Osiris Sector, Binaural Sector, and Dotani Sector.

Anyway, those are my thoughts in an attempt to stimulate discussion.



Brig. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

07/01/2007 14:50 Vaughan

Okay, I decided to do a hack job of representing the changes I mentioned.

Currently uplaced locations on the map (for you to help with): Ynia Cluster, Kola Sector.

However, if we can't find anywhere for the Ynia Cluster . . . we could just have it either directly above (z-axis) or below the Minos Cluster, with some explanation. Because it is mentioned in the campaign that Imperial forces are cyphering reinforcements and supplies in from their main territory via the Minos Cluster (at this stage the RS had either abandoned the Minos Cluster, or controlled most but not all parts of it --- seriously, we've never really well-patroled that damned cluster, have we? Also, Imperial territory at the time probably included the Dotani and Binaural Sectors.


Brig. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

10/01/2007 09:24 Starkiller

Hey, I'm back. Sorry, work and all. And no, it wasn't my intent to make the right-side of the nebula completely impassable, just not by a major enough trade route to make it onto a map. I had the Kola Sector to the right of Greeop, so I don't think I had intended it as being unknown, just as a continuation of Wild Space. I'm fine with the tentative placements you've mentioned, though I think we can put Kola and whatever else is still up in the air rightwards or above/below Greeop if need be.

And I agree with Aurora Sector (or whatever we end up calling it, though I think our old EH rivalry should be acknowledged, as it really defined our club) should be some rear-guard bastion of Imperial territory or something along those lines.

If I think of anything else, I'll add in. Otherwise, I think we're on the right track. :)


- Randy

18/01/2007 22:54 Vaughan


For re-starting this discussion, I sure did a lousy job. :P

Thank-you for the replies thus far, everyone.

I am currently training up a number of Assistant Logistics Officers (to one day replay me), so I have brough them up to speed with the discussion (as evidenced by the wiki transcript). Their input is now also welcome to the discussion.

So it is that we welcome (in no particular order) Captain Gavin Starseeker (Seeks), Major Olith Hesto, Captain Jotheb Tahn, General David Pasichnyk (Heavy), and Commander Calista Fairbright.

First of all, a message posted by Seeks:


Thanks to Vaughan for including me in the discussions here. Just wanted to say that when you've worked out the rest of the placements, I could produce a high-detailed map for you. Perhaps even with the progression of conflicts in the RS's past as a visual reference. But first, the placements of course.

As for the Aurora Sector, what was the history of stuff we did there? As in, was there any contact with other places, that sort of thing. That should be factored in. Otherwise, I don't have any gripes with what's been done thus far.

~Gavin Starseeker

Thank-you, Seeks. :) Abi has also offered to draw up maps, so maybe Abi could make the originals, and you could work with me afterward on doing conflict maps (showing the progression of territory as controlled by the various factions as time and campaigns go by).

As for the Aurora Sector, we never actually visited the place in any competitions or campaigns. However, it is the name of the base sector controlled by the Emperor's Hammer, an Imperial club whom we have clashed with since our beginnings last decade. There are no solid placements we can give this region that are compatible with our maps, so we have the explanation of it being the main Imperial bastion of power, and of Imperial forces using other sectors closer to us (such as the Dotani and Binaural Sectors) as forward territory from which to strike at us. However, over time we have gradually conquered those regions, pushing them back up to their main territory and decimating their forces.

Obviously, though, they still have a sizable fleet to throw at us, as evidenced by the Battle of Blerthmore (except that those Imperial forces struck from a completely different angle --- from the Subterrel Sector).

So by not worrying about the EH's opinion of where their territory is, and by following the logic of the Binaural and Dotani Sectors having been Imperial territory backing up to that in the past, we have the tentative placement of the Aurora Sector between (or out to the left slightly) of the Elrood Sector and Dotani Sector.

Okay, so here's the quick, rough and nasty draft map I have as it currently stands.


  • Moved the Meridian Cluster off the trade route a bit, to try and populate the right hand side of the trade route somewhat
  • More firmly placed the Ynia Cluster, in a place so that Imperial forces could have used the Minos Cluster to move troops and ships through back in the day (not anymore)
  • Supplied two options for possible placements of the Aurora Sector, bastion of Imperial power in the region. Which do you think is more appropriate?
  • Added the Kola Sector, next to the Greeop Sector (and a reason why we haven't investigated sectors to the right --- any possible Imperial forces, of which there are probably none, would have to get through Kola Sector to reach us first)
  • Expanded (looks horrible the way I've done it, I know) the sizes of most of the sectors.
  • I have also noted the direction of the Subterrel Sector, from our locations
  • And added in a 'possible' route the Imperial strike force that rocked Blerthmore could have used

So, if you have any comments or criticisms, throw them in. Otherwise, we'll accept this horribly rough draft as it is, and then start working on cleaner copies (whatever final draft version we agree on I'll re-make from scratch to make sure the cartographer's job at making a good copy is easier, so that things are to scale correctly and so forth).


Brig. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

19/01/2007 13:45 Trebonious-Astoris

A brief note to say that I have no objects personally. :P Green light from me.



20/01/2007 06:06 Starkiller

I like the more southern placement of the Aurora Sector. I imagine that if the New Republic had an Imperial bastion which possessed a Sovereign-class Star Dreadnought directly near their main Area of Occupation, they'd freak a bit. Especially since this Imperial stronghold isn't a more benign faction like the old Pentastar Alignment was, for example. A more rearward position would make it less of a concern to the NR's main holdings, and more of a concern to their Rimward allies -- i.e. us.

Teh space east of the Kola Sector is probably just small colonies or friendly space. Either way, it doesn't really concern us until something happens out there, I guess.

Can't think of much else for the moment. Nice map, though. :P


Randy Starkiller

20/01/2007 15:30 Vaughan


Well, at this stage of the timeline (or at least the timeline placements of the conflicts with the EH) for us, it's not possible for them to have a Sovereign-class, as they haven't been invented yet. And also . . . all Sovereigns were blown up in the Dark Empire series, right? But that's okay, I didn't have a particular preferences for which location. We'll go with the one you said.

Hmm . . . okay.

I'll go off and make a much nicer-looking mock-up map, for our cartographers to base their good ones on.

The next steps, then, are (and these can happen simultaneously) a) make the maps, and b) determine location placements for all past conflicts (specifically battles).

For a), I'll make the prettified version of the map, so that the cartographers can get to work on making the region map with sector boundaries.

And for b), I'll provide the data I've gleaned already, along with my proposed locations (for locations that aren't officially placed).

Also, I'll need some help with b), with the determination of names for worlds, systems, at least one sector, maybe a nebula, the odd asteroid field, etc. :)


Brig. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer

20/01/2007 21:17 Vaughan

Okay, here's the final draft of our cartographic proposal.

I would recommend that when making the maps, one makes a MASSIVE copy. Because I am hoping that eventually we'll be able to place locations into that map. Maybe even extracting it out as sector maps, but . . . yeah. For the sector boundaries and trade routes, how about a giant map? And then if it needs to be shrunk, wait until you've resized it before putting on the text labels.

Note that my sector boundaries are guidelines, and you'll have some degree of artistic licence. :)

And my request (which you could ignore, maybe) is that the background be a kind of silvery colour . . . rather than black or white.

Reason being --- I'm hoping we can eventually develop 'conflict maps', which have different regions coloured depending on their allegiance or statuses. And silver's a fairly neutral colour.

For the region borders . . . the upper-most limitation could be the Elrood and Tantra Sectors, the lower-most limitation could be the Kathol Sector, and the left-most border could be the Desdemona Sector . . . if you're feeling especially keen, you may include the Subterrel Sector, too, as it will be relevant very soon (i.e. a major competitoin as well as a campaign are taking place there).

If you're looking for a proper shape of the Subterrel Sector, and its precise positioning in relation to our closer sectors, here's a composite map that should help.

So yes . . . I think for starters, just crafting the sector boundaries and maybe including the main trade routes should be priorities for now. And we'll worry about adding in text labels later.

Let me know if you need anything else to help your design of this map.


Brig. David Vaughan

Logistics Officer