Talk:Flight Sim Merger

Names

Don't like either of the suggested ones, personally; I'm not much of a names person, but I like to start by thinking of abbreviations that might be good (CF? - hell, Crusader Fleet used to exist; WF? maybe too much like WWF) -Licah Fox 10:00, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)

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"Alliance Battle Fleet" is better, though a bit too close to "Allegiance Battle Group".

Let's look at the current names:

• Patriot: nationalistic (clubalistic?); premise of being the RS' first and most successful fleet, and being the backbone of the RS
• Retribution: revengeful; premise of stealing Empire's ships and using against them
• Renegade: rebellious; premise of having a lot of cocky pilots that don't care about command?
• Intrepid: brave; premise of...playing a game with poor MP? I'm not sure.

The new flying fleet is a combination of various elements, so I like the "Alliance" theme; here are some other possibilities:

• Coalition Fleet
• Union Fleet
• Federated Flight Fleet (FFF!)

or things like:

• RS Strike Fleet

or from wing names:

• Valor Fleet
• Guardian Fleet
• Storm Fleet

just some possibilities....

-Licah Fox 14:52, 17 February 2006 (EST)

As for fleet names, I'm hesitant to suggest any types of "combination" or "Union" type names.. seems tacky to me, but, I'm game for whatever the majority votes for. ~Joshua Hawkins

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I’d kinda dig something New Republic-ish:

• Crusader Strike Fleet
• Crusader Battle Group
• Stalwart Battle Group
• RS Space Corp (thinking like Army Air Corp)
• Outer Rim Space Corp
• Outer Rim Fleet

I’m in favor of using the current fleets as wing names (i.e. Renegade, Intrepid, Patriot, Retribution) or at least picking new names based on those. Units do get shifted around and reorganized into new command, so it would be acceptable to create new wing names and reuse various squadron names.

However, I would have to object that using similar names such as "Dragon", "Red", and "Red Dragon" should be avoided. It add confusion in casual references to these units and steal from their distinctiveness. I strongly favor using unique names (whether they’re reused from old units or not) for the fleet/wings/squadrons. --Rekio 05:48, 26 February 2006 (EST)

Squad names will remain the same, unless the current CO wishes to change the name to reflect the new fleet. Squadrons carry with them a history, some of the newer squads may wish to change their names, while others may wish to keep it the same. Wing names will be changed, I would like to change them to the fleets we are combining, if only out of respect. That is however up to the Fleet CS. Joshua Hawkins 08:49, 26 February 2006 (EST)

Merits

Twin suns? All the rest of these are things you can be, but I'm not sure what being a twin suns means. Also, legend rebel? That just sounds tacky, and I think we're the NR, not the Rebel Alliance. Super ace? The word "super" should be avoided. I suggest more gradations in the early times, much like PBF. I'm not sure that "Rebel" is a cooler thing than "Knight", or that we should have rebel at all. -Licah Fox 10:00, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)

For the merits we wanted to get away from the medeval listings, but I do see your point. we'll come up with something.. ~ Joshua Hawkins

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Some of the names are pretty lame. Why not dissolve them and just convert to a pure club-wide RS Merit system? --Rekio 05:48, 26 February 2006 (EST)

Merits names are still up in the air, I need people to help come up with better names.I haven't really thought about using the RS merit system, as I figured they are something special. Still having a fleet wide system gives it a little more personal touch. Converting everyone to the RS merits might be a little tricky and confusing at first, but it's something to look into. Joshua Hawkins 08:49, 26 February 2006 (EST)

Structure

Fleet structure: you have 18 squadrons here? I highly recommend a system with 9-10 people per squadron, so try to figure out how many people you have. I recall out of the depths of my mind that I wrote a script to figure this out once, and it looks like this page is it - 128 people means 12-13 squadrons, and I'll bet you that many of those people are actually gone, but the COs haven't been doing their duty. So I'd recommend 12 squadrons at the most. I know that this means disbanding more squadrons, but that may happen anyways.... When this last came up, I was in 4 squadrons, and they were all, except one, disbanded within the next year, so the decision became moot. -Licah Fox 10:00, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)

The fleet roster was setup just to get a good idea of where everything will be. I understand alot of those squads will be disbanded, which is to be expected. However, it'll be up to the pilot to choose which squad he wants to be in. Only when they fail to choose in a timely manner will we choose for them. ~ Joshua Hawkins

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I don't understand the switch from 3 squadron per wing to 6 squadron. Was there any reason for this? If you're going to stick with Imperial style wing, you should also consider making the flag staff dedicated (i.e. they'll be full time command and not pilots in squadrons).

Considering the recruitment and retention rate of the flight sim games, I agree with Licah that 12 or so squadrons (2-6 squad wings or 4-3 squad) would be better. --Rekio 05:48, 26 February 2006 (EST)

The squads were listed in 6 for cosmetic reasons. Realistically, when everyone decides on their primary fleet, the squads will be 3 or 4 per wing. No more than 4 per wing. We can't narrow it down completely until we know where each member is going. I'de like to have full squads if possible, but as long as they have at least 7 or 8 members I'd like to think the squad would be around. Plus some people will retire and not like a merger idea, others being in more than one squad/fleet will move to where they are comfortable. It's a wait and see game with this part of the merger. Joshua Hawkins 08:49, 26 February 2006 (EST)

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First of all (before any other changes) I would recommend to create something like a Space Combat Command, with a high ranked officer in charge and with the fleets COs, so you will have 5 people who can coordinate restructuralization of the 4 fleets. That way we can get things running, and no changes to the fleets are currently needed. Of course 5 people would be the minimum. Space Combat Command would have more staff (i.e. IOs, Academy, auxiliary - ITOD creators, ...). And make it possible for pilots to choose the Space Combat Command as "primary fleet". Many pilots do XvT and XWA, so if they can get ranking in both games, they won't do only one (the more MP active) game.

If you really want to merge fleets, I am not the person who could stop that. But as I am still confused of all the squadrons and wings in Redemption Fleet, I would suggest to have only one wing for each game, or to create something like task forces for each game. Also it would be REALLY nice if there could be the ships (the squadrons are assigned to) in the rosters of the 4 fleets. That would be good for orientation, and it would also intensify the role playing aspect of the RS. DaLe 06:23, 25 March 2006 (EST)

Academy

Looking specifically at the Academy Wing i can say as the RgF UG CO that there is need for only 1 squadron for the RgF as the number of cadets coming through doesn't warrant more. I'd be guessing that this would be the same for all the flying fleets. If cadets are managed properly i can't see them filling up anyway. -Phil

Yeah, I can see that, especially with Tie, As long as Ace keeps cadets o nthe ball, XW will only need one squad as well. Still I'de like to have the space there "just in case"

I figure the squad names will be changed to reflect the game they are teaching, no need for them to have real squad names. The days of Grey-alpha flying with the cadets are over. ~Joshua Hawkins

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Instead of having a bunch of specialty training, it might be easier to design a model based on more generalized requirements. It seems redundant to make a member go to multiple school when the basic principle behind all mission is the same. If a Cadet can play a TIE mission, he'll be able to figure out how to install and play XWA and XvT too.

It'd be best if the Training CO was in charge of the whole thing and then there were "specialty" instructors for technical advice. The TCO could then assign graduated cadets to the appropriate squadron, based on whatever the selection convention happens to be (possibly a draft system where worse performing/smaller squadrons get more recruits, or simply a rotation of assignment.) Also might be worth trying to establish some sort of buddy system where Cadets could be paired with older members of their designated squadron to help get them settled in. --Rekio 05:48, 26 February 2006 (EST)

The fleet academy is easy to work around, you don't have to actually physically move a cadet from one squad to another to get trained. You can, if only for organizational purposes. I figure with the 4 fleets we are combining, the 4 TO's can get together and work something out that will be beneficial to everyone. For the beginning though, having the individual squads is worthwhile. I agree that the TO should be incharge of everyone, and have the squad CO's as instructors. Joshua Hawkins 08:49, 26 February 2006 (EST)

Medals

I've added some examples of new gold medals for top gun in each of the 4 games. You'll find the page here. Gods I suck at graphic creations, but at least you get the idea of what I was trying to do. Maybe TJ will assist in creation if we ask nicely? Long as it's not a big gold medal with "XWA" or whatever the game is on it, that would just look stupid, In my opinion. I have silver and Bronze medals created as well, but I only posted the gold versions for now.

Just some thoughts..

Joshua Hawkins 06:22, 22 February 2006 (EST)

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I still hold that fleet medals like merits, should be dissolved in favor of a revamped club-wide medal system. See related comments in my Medal System proposal. --Rekio 05:48, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I don't think the medals are going to change. There won't be as many fleet wide medals, but we'll still have a few important ones. Having Fleet specific medals is important. Still the if the RS medals are going to get another overhaul from what they are now, this issue can be discussed in better detail. Joshua Hawkins 08:49, 26 February 2006 (EST)

Storyline

Just wait till Vender comes back or something. Or get an AFer to do it. There are tons of possible storylines, I'm sure I could create a good one in an hour or so... -Licah Fox 10:00, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)

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See related comments in the Common ITOD section. --Rekio 05:48, 26 February 2006 (EST)

As for the narratives, I don't think having wing CO's in charge of the story is worth while. I can't see any benefit. I can see however, "wing missions" during a story. Something for added credit and bonus. Joshua Hawkins 08:49, 26 February 2006 (EST)

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I get the impression that having the Thrawn offensive (Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn) as the major threat that forces the fleets to re-organise, but this is problematic, as the club seems to be all over the place, chronologically.

Auroraforce and Allegiance Battle Group are sometime after Daala's assault (Jedi Academy Trilogy by Kevin "Inept" Anderson), whereas the flight sim fleets seem to be perpetually stuck at 'just before Thrawn's invasion' five years after the Battle of Endor. We've been there for ten years, longer than most of us have actually even been here, which is what caused the fictional fleets to splinter away in frustration.

Recently I has begun the task of cataloguing all of the previous ITODs that I can get my hands on (which amounts to all of them but the first three tours of Retribution Fleet, which seem to have been forever lost in the void). I'm about thirty percent through, and I can find little to no evidence to support that we are actually five years post Endor. Not that I'm saying that the mission statement is wrong, just that we don't have to be stuck there if we do want to move on (I know this notion might frighten some people :P).

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be any storyline content which specifies that we have to actually be in this time frame, and in fact, in Patriot Battle Fleet Tours 2 and 3, the main antagonist is Imperial Warlord Admiral Daala, which is a few years after the Thrawn offensive.

Just something that I thought I'd throw up here -- the idea that we don't have to be perpetually stuck in time. We can move on through the timeline slowly if we want to do that. And we don't even have to do that quickly . . . I mean, between missions is sometimes days, or hours, so it's not like we're going to be 'OMG Unknown Regions invasion time!' and post-Civil War time anytime soon, because we won't need to proceed at a realtime pace.

David Vaughan 16:27 7 February 2006 (GMT+10) (Fixed spacing to make it easier to read -- Capt. Vaughan)

Scoring

Himm likes message boards for reports; I recommend NOT yahoogroups, as it does not store pilot files anymore - it used to, which was really nice. Alternatives include Topica and Google Groups.

So there can be 4 squadrons who win in any given month? What if one squadron wins all 4 things? I don't know, I prefer a clear standings system like in Common ITOD, but maybe that's just me. -Licah Fox 10:00, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)

Well if this works out right, and we are able to get all 4 games to release missions every month, then it's possible a squad to could be on top for all 4 games, highly unlikely though.

Take youself for instance Licah, you are (were?) in all four flying fleets, it's possible you could be the top gun for each mission for the month, but you could also be the only pilot in your squad that flies a couple of games.

We're not taking away the competetion between squads so much, as we're focusing on storylines more than usual. Admittantly if the story progresses the way we want, it will hopefully encourage other pilots to try new games. Which in turn will bring back the squadron wars.

Having monthly mission to fly, no matter what game it's for, and having the choice to fly any or all of the missions is what counts right now. The game you want maynot be part of the "main storyline" for that month, but it will be part of the story. Like escort duty, or reconn, etc.

~ Joshua Hawkins